Would the Lisbon Treaty entangle Ireland in a military alliance?

69% YES 31% NO

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• No, of course it won't. The message that comes across clearly from Mr. Storey is that he doesn't trust the Irish government, he doesn't trust any Irish government. Mr. Storey's complaint is that the Lisbon Treaty doesn't tie the hands of all future Irish governments. That is not what European treaties are for; that is not democracy.
  Norman Stewart  Ireland
• Defense agreements amongst European powers aren't really comparable to the crochet knit entanglements of the early 20th century. They roughly fall into 3 definite types : NATO, ESDP (the European Security and Defense Policy), bilateral executive agreements with the US presidency. ESDP may only lead to a common army with unanimous EU state & referenda support. Pigs will fly before hand. We must understand & be very clear in our understanding of the differences between the work of our professional army when stationed abroad under the mechanisms of legitimate international arbitration which are UN resolutions and the role Ireland might play in undermining that arbitration were she to either enter NATO or continue (as Shannon shows) binding herself to US presidential executive agreements for military operations which lacked such UN international legitimacy. The USAF use of Shannon illustrates the last and most geopolitically destabilizing tangle of my list - US executive agreements. And perhaps it's possible that Chad is an example which is not thoroughly explained. I am I not convinced that either EUFOR DR Chad set up under UN Resolution 1671 (2006) which ran for 8 months only or its follow up the current Chad EUFOR RCA under UN Resolution 1778 (2007) will provide a model for all common military co-operation. I tend to be much more localized and dreary when focusing my crystal ball and wonder at the EU's role in the "de-facto" if not "de-jure" protectorate of Kosovo under KFOR. There we see a trail which began with a UN Security Council resolution rather than general assembly as the previous cited. UNSC resolution 1244 brought NATO in 1999, since then Ireland's contribution peaked at 279 personnel and now we have 272 stationed. There are many arguments against voting "yes" or "no" to the Treaty of Lisbon, rights to houses, jobs, pensions, health plans, self-determination referenda, etc. But dusting off the Irish defense / neutrality neurosis shibboleth for a romp around the housing estate is not really one which stands up to scrutiny. We¿ve been entangled in commitments ever since we decided to send our professional army on UN mandated missions. We're proud of that. But for the most part we pay no attention whatsoever to the mechanisms which allowed our airports and other facilities serve US military logistics without UN mandates. Yet again; a though provoking question and debate from the "Head2Head" really ought direct our critical attention elsewhere.
  iosaf mac diarmada  Spain
• As an Irishman of the diaspora (all four of my grandparents were of Irish descent) I am vitally interested in the present and, especially, the future of my home land. This issue of the Lisbon Treaty frightens me to death! I'm afraid that too many of my brothers and sisters do not realize that the referendum on the Lisbon Treaty is in effect a decision equal to new elections in Ireland. The decision on ratifying the Lisbon Treaty is - upon transferring the current powers of the nation state of Ireland to the federal state in Brussels ¿ it is a decision on accepting or rejecting the permanent construction of A NEW FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND PARLIAMENT OVER IRELAND. To do so will be to utterly discard on the rubbish heap of history all the sacrifices of our ancestors, both the suffering against British oppression and the fighting for freedom in which so many lives were lost. This is a crucial time in Irish history - a time when you/we will decide whether to march on under your/our own strength and character and leadership or to surrender your/our rights, lives, and fate to others who have, upon every past opportunity, either turned their backs on Ireland in her need or swooped in to take advantage of her riches. Which is exactly what is happening now. Ireland (God bless her forever!) has risen, by her own strength of character and moral fortitude and by God's kind grace, far above her past of subjection and base poverty to a point where she is a jewel in the crown of Europe and the world. Ireland has earned all her scars and medals of valour and has come into her own - at last. (One might quote of Ireland as well, "Free at last, free at last! Thank God almighty, we're free at last!") And now, in the time of finally enjoying the fruits of our hard-won, blood-bought freedoms and successes, Ireland considers handing over her self-mastery to yet another foreign dictator! God forbid it! Let Ireland be Ireland, not some small dot on the EU map. Let Ireland be Ireland, not another chattel within another kingdom - for such is the becoming EU/EC. Never forget the sacrifices made by our (OUR) grandparents for the possibility of self-rule for Ireland. We are Ireland! We are not Europeans - we never have been. We were at best pets, at worst slaves of Europeans. Ireland has suffered too long to throw away her freedom and self-sufficiency on yet another European master race. We are Ireland! Look long and hard at America and learn from her mistakes. Under her own power, the United States stood together by choice. Today, we have given up the idea of mutually beneficial partnership among the member states and have become subjects to a dictatorial Federal Government who seeks to rip our choice from us - from freedom of religion to freedom of choice to freedom of speech. American is becoming what the EU would march straight into, from the beginning. Ireland, my Ireland, whom I learned to pray for and to love at my mother's knee and from my father's stories, remember the source of your strength in your tortured past - return to your faith and your moral sense of self. God lead you through 700 years of tribulation and abject slavery. Your/our sense of Irish identity apart from that of the rest of the world kept us unified and alive during years of deprivation and attempted genocide. Please, please, please don't give all that up now for a new, stronger master. We, the children of your diaspora, are counting on you to safeguard our heritage and our home. Guard and keep them from another outsider who seeks to steal and destroy our culture. We are counting on you. Please don't let us down. Remain independent and free and self-governing. Please. We are Ireland!
  Robert O'Coillean  United States
• Ireland's policy of neutrality is based on the desire to avoid entanglement in the violent disputes of large nations. However, neutrality would not have protected the freedom and safety of the Irish people if the Nazis had conquered Britain, or if the Soviet Union had attacked Western Europe. Neutrality is a defensive policy; it is not a defence policy. No nation should ever go looking for war, but that won't stop war from finding a people who seek to remain untouched by humanity's penchant for conflict.
  Dan  Ireland
• Ireland is already entangled in a military alliance.
  John O'Driscoll  Not Answered
• Neutrality was important to deValera for several reasons, but a lesser known one has to do with the British constitutional theory of the indivisibility of the Crown. If the British Monarch is at war, all parts of the Empire and Commonwealth are at War. Irish neutrality meant that Ireland could never rejoin the Commonwealth or the Empire.
  But in time of war Ireland has always hypocritically pretended to sit on the fence and kicked the ball for the favoured side when nobody was looking. Ireland's military alliance with the USA means that Shannon Airport and other ports in the so-called "neutral" State are in effect staging points for enormous traffic in soldiers, mercenaries, weapons; including weapons of mass destruction, supplies on route or returning from a colossal warcrime that has to date left over a million dead according to the estimates. Without Ireland's help, there is little doubt that this warcrime's planning and perpetration would have been much more difficult - albeit far from impossible - for the criminal Bush Administration to achieve. This reality means that Ireland is in complete breach of the 1907 Hague Convention which is the only internationally recognised body of legislation governing the rights and obligations of neutral nations. Moreover, Ireland is de facto a member of Hague; this was confirmed by US Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson of the Nuremberg Tribunal who stated that "by 1939 these rules laid down in the (Hague) Convention were recognised by all civilised nations and were regarded as being declaratory of the laws and customs of war".
  Being in gross breach of the rules laid down by the only internationally recognised law defining something means one is not that something, whatever it is. Stands to reason. As Ireland is therefore not a neutral country, being already entangled in a military alliance, logic itself dictates that the profound transfer of military power and sovereignty from member states to the EU SuperState will naturally lead to Ireland's entanglement in further military alliances, unless Ireland's current military ally, the USA, should dictate otherwise. In which case Ireland will then be the most important strategic bridge between two military SuperPowers to be seized by either in the event that, as Mr Churchill once said, "the sense of envelopment... might at any moment turn to strangulation" between a modern-day Rome and a modern-day Carthage. Ireland will be a full member of the EU Common Defence and Security force within 3 years of Lisbon's ratification and thereafter the Irish region of the EU Superstate will participate in any military adventure the EU Superstate participates in.
  Kynos  Not Answered
• I'd like to clarify the figures for Irish personel deployment in the NATO led UNSC resolution derived KFOR missions to the "de facto" EU protectorate of Kosovo which I gave in the last comment which complement why I Believe this debate tobe flawed in one very important background fact. Instead of wondering will the Lisbon Treaty erode the shiboleth of Neutrality which so often gets marched around the housing estate we should have started by wondering does the commitments of our state as well as all our armed forces already render Neutrality fit to either drop off the plinth or properly define. Ireland's contribution to the Balkans was in the form of Garda Siochana. They already carry responsilibity for many areas, including intelligence gathering and analysis, which in our partner EU states would be the reserve of either military or civilian agencies. But unlike many others the Garda Siochana role in domestic defense and alliances appropriate to same is reliant on the supposedly neutral state to outsource part of such duties to third party agencies. Neutrality is not just about the Easter Rising parade gig crew anymore. It is curious that the last lengthy foreign position debate of the Irish Free State and the first foreign policy statement by the Eire state saw non-involvement with the Spanish civil war (or overthrow of its republic) is now forgotten but the shiboleth raised is still believed in. Why do we keep a professional army? We know we're not spending the obligatory 10% of our budget to join NATO. We know that Garda Siochana could as a specialist armed force dispose safely of bombs or ordinance. We know our naval force does not complement coastal rescue services to our complete independence of action. We mostly stay quiet about Shannon. Oh but now sincere and thoughtful debate is had on whether or not Lisbon will stop our Neutrality. Don't worry of ye of little faith. The soft rain has the right Ph value to keep us utterly tangle free.
  iosaf mac diarmada  Spain
• Let's face it folks, we can't have it both ways. On one hand we expect to "be a full fledged member of the EU which entails all rights and RESPONSIBILITIES of said membership. We want the best of BOTH worlds.........the right to opt out selectively of the responsibilities of the EU while wanting the full benefits of membership.
  Dan Murphy  United States
• British government reneged on their promise of a rerendum on the EU Con-Traety 88% of British electors demanded an referendum. Great Britain has been denied a vote. We say vote wisely Ireland, we are relying on you to save us from this treachery. Say NO to an EU President Saay NO to a EU Foreign Secretary Say NO to an EU army Say NO to further expansion Say NO to the European Super State. People died for your independence. Respect them and say NO. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER.
  Peter_Pan  United Kingdom
• Of course it will, how can it not? It's like asking if you'll get wet if you take a shower!
  Paul  Ireland