Is denominational education suitable for 21st century Ireland?

51% YES 49% NO

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Your Reaction

• "John Murray says denominational schools can serve a pluralist society by respecting religious traditions and offering choice to parents" (as per your abstract).

  1. Pluralism - It is ridiculous to build an educational institution around a single belief system then call it pluralism. It is not pluralist for the children contained within it. Teaching a young person to believe blindly is merely indoctrination.

  2. Tradition - The fact that something is 'traditional' is not an automatic support for it. Tradition can embrace many noble things but, in our current context, think about the longstanding national tradition of alcohol consumption, or our wonderful 'cute hoor' political tradition. Even ostensibly benign traditions must be open to examination.

  3. Choice - We currently offer adults the right to choose a belief system for their children. This indoctrination of a child is designed precisely to deprive a future adult of freedom of choice. Religious organisations, in every culture, are actually terrified of genuine freedom to choose. This is precisely why a battle is being fought on the nursery doorstep. Adults are actually not entitled to the right to choose indoctrination of the young and impressionable. Children should be presented with ample information and a genuine opportunity to choose when they are ready. If they later make an informed choice of the belief system of their parents so be it, but why should they be forced to from infancy? That is what a pluralist society should protect them from. Far from denominational schools serving a pluralist society, they are in direct opposition to it.
  Kevin Scally  Ireland

• As an American living in Ireland, having an education system linked to religion is the single most unappealing thing about raising children in Ireland.
  Ian  Ireland
• The recent conversion of prominent Muslim journalist,Magdi Allam in Rome is an eloquent testimony to the value of the denominational education he received in Cairo.His inspiring story of conversion recounts his groundedness in values which led him to find "the God of faith and reason" and appreciate "the indissoluble link between faith and reason as a basis for authentic religion and human civilisation".(His testimony is readily available on the web)
  brenda mcgann  Ireland
• My children attended both Catholic Schools and VEC Community Colleges. They had no rights in either type of school as they were not Catholic or Christian. Even so called Multi-Denominational VEC Community College's have a religious ethos. It is quite impossible to opt your child out of a Religious ethos. From my experience a Religious ethos is a licence to indoctrinate, this is not respect. We do not belong to the school community as we are different. Schools with an ethos like Educate Together that respect children's different belief systems and where all children have a guaranteed right of access is the only way to respect their Human Rights. Children have a right to freedom of conscience we should not indoctrinate them. Educating children together about different Religions and belief systems teaches children to respect each other and is the only way forward.
  jane  Ireland
• I attended a Catholic school yet was never "forced" to believe anything. The Catholic faith was presented to me, along with other faiths--Christian and non-Christian. Emphasis was placed on the Catholic faith, granted, but to authentically understand religion in general, one must be taught the language of a particular religion. How many people complain that young people are indoctrinated into the english language? We can all freely choose to learn other languages as we grow older, but without first mastering english it would be impossible to practice any other language. The most intelligent atheists are those that have rejected a religion they know intimately. The most ignorant are those who never understood religion in the first place due to lack of acquaintance. I rejected a lot of what I was taught in religion class at the time, but at least it was an informed decision and today, after third level education and more life experience, I freely accept the Catholic faith.

  The people who rally against so-called relgious indoctrination usually have no problm with atheistic indoctrination. The argument against denominational schools based on freedom of religion is totally bogus. Secular religious programs present all relgions as purely sociological phenomenas, devoid of any potential truth content concerning the transcendent. That is why you will not hear many Muslims or Christians of other denominations decrying Catholic schools. Unless the faith/s are taught intelligently and as universally true then young students will not treat them seriously. How many students would take science seriously if they were taught an anti-realist conception of science?

  Britain is one of the most secular states in the world yet their most valued educational asset are the faith based schools. Let us not forget that 85% of us believe in God, a considerably higher figure compared to Britain. Surely we should value our faith-schools to an even greater extent.
  tom  Ireland

• It beggers believe that denominational schools get tax payers money and can then descriminate against children for not being the correct religion or having none at all. Do we allow our hospitals, gardaí or any other major state edifice descriminate on religious grounds?

  It all just smacks of fear. Religious groups know to maintain their power and existence, they have to get people when they are young and are not capable of rational criticism. Once they are in a particular religious habbit, they might just keep it. All religious statistics shows that most religious people have the very same particular religion as their parents? Co-incidence? No. Rational decision? No.

  Very few religious peoples pick their religion following a rational examination of all possible options.

  The famous quote attributed to the Jesuit Francis Xavier's says it all "Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man."
  Alex Staveley  Ireland

• In my opinion, we have advanced far enough to be able to put religious differences behind us. Schools run by religious orders or other denominatinally oriented trusts are perfectly in order as long as this does not lead to a child or a group of children being excluded from an education. Our schools system has fared well enough as it is over the decades, so don't let's change too much too quickly. Placing all schools in the hands of the State would not be a good idea, as problems in France and Germany show sufficiently well.
  Michael Petters  Germany
• Denominational schooling works against critical thinking and reflection, which ought to be the primary outcome of education. Students should learn about religion, of course, but this is very different to the complete immersion in one particular religion. We should not forget that religion works as a social institution as well as a personal relationship with God. As social insititutions, many religions are undemocratic, particularly Roman Catholicism. Further, they operate irrespective of national boundaries, and as such, convey ideologies that may be antithetical to the interests of citizens in civil society. I consider the position of women is a crucial issue. Women are subordinate in many religions, while national governemtns espouse equality. However, people should be free to practice religion, to receive instruction, and to believe what ever they wish, provided it remains a private matter, and does not impinge on the rights of others.
  brid  Ireland
• I believe that denominational education is not only suitable, but essential in 21st century Ireland. First of all, a democratic country (such as ours) should offer all kinds of education (denominational and non-denominational) to cater for the wishes of the variety of its citizens. Secondly, I think that in modern Ireland where there is a moral vacuum, being filled with drugs, crime and a lack of respect for parental, educational and legal authority - the availability of denomianational education is a necessity.
  Joe Soap  Ireland
• I agree with Tom. Even in a secular state like Britain, there are large waiting lists for faith schools. Many children in Britain travel long distances to get to these schools every day. This is largely because of these schools excellent academic record. It is also, I believe because many people put a value on religious instruction for their children.
  Lucey  Ireland